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Google-locks and the Three Faces of Panda

This will be a long post covering both Panda destruction and recovery, so I thought I’d better start off with a graph and a little backstory for context.

IFITJAMS gets 3X Google Traffic 10/13 Panda one month AFTER previous Panda recovery

Once upon a time, a little girl with golden hair got a job with a big corporation judging the quality of websites. They dressed her up in a funny bear suit and sent her out to pass black and white judgment on three websites. First, she tried the poppa website, online ever since 1996 and drawing around 2,500 visitors a day from Google. “This website is too old,” she said, and Google took away 80% of its visitors. Then she tried the momma website, online since 2000 and drawing over 6,000 visitors a day from Google. “This website is too ugly,” she said, and Google took away 75% of its traffic. Finally she tried the baby website, online since 2008, which was drawing around 500 visitors a day from Google. At first she wasn’t sure, and then she thought didn’t like it, but then she kind of liked it and finally she decided “This website is just right,” and Google tripled its traffic.

The poppa website in this story is DAILEYINT.COM. It was started as an essay style technology news site with Franklyn Dailey Jr., a fellow author with whom I’d co-authored a book length technology report for a tech publisher. We soon realized we couldn’t compete with 24×7 technology news sites powered by PR releases, so we repurposed the site for our book writing projects. DAILEYINT consists of about 160 web pages, the majority of which were published as book chapters over the last fifteen years. Franklyn, who retired from the service as a Captain (USNR), served as the gunnery officer on a destroyer in World War Two and later as a naval aviator. His pages are historical nonfiction, reinforced by research, eyewitness accounts and photographs. My part of the website started with the drafts of The Hand-Me-Down PC and Build Your Own PC, books I later sold to McGraw-Hill, and a newsworthy (Dateline MSNBC, front page of The Investors Business Daily) PC question and answer page with daily updates.

DAILEYINT Google visitors, green is 2010, blue is 2011

The momma website is FONERBOOKS.COM, which I started with daily progress reports about translating my great-grandmother’s groundbreaking fiction works from Hebrew. When that project was finished, I moved my prior Israel writing and the often cited analysis of Amazon ranks over from the DAILEYINT site, and focused all of my writing efforts on FONERBOOKS. The most popular pages were full chapters from my PC troubleshooting book with interactive flowcharts, but the publishing journalism also became popular and my Self Publishing blog (started in 2005) was a top 10 lock in Google search for years. I also kept up the Israel guide, added an illustrated section about building a timber frame, and wrote about my misadventures in business and investing.

FONERBOOKS Google visitors, green is 2010, blue is 2011

The baby website, IFITJAMS.COM, was started for the purpose of proving to my publishing blog readers that it wasn’t already too late to build a content based website in 2008. I built it around some hack work I was doing to keep my 1986 Dodge Omni on the road, added some troubleshooting flowcharts for basic car problems, and even a short-lived blog for fixing anything. I’m strictly a shade-tree mechanic, my experience is limited to fixing my own cars and occasionally helping friends, and most of my work would cause a professional mechanic to laugh himself to death. The site also includes a little of my “grin and bear it” medical writing that would get a physician sued for malpractice.

IFITJAMS Google visitors, green is 2010, blue is 2011

Prior to the Panda update, Google’s main indicators of site quality (what they now dismiss as mere “relevancy”) were the quantity, quality and context of incoming links. The table below shows the links to these three websites as reported by Google Webmaster Tools and the Yahoo! Site Explorer Tool. The totals are different because they count links in different ways, neither of which is particularly reliable. Webmaster Tools, amusingly, counts links that are NOFOLLOWED.

DAILEYINT FONERBOOKS IFITJAMS
Born 1996 2000 2008
Links (WebMaster Tools) 12,250 70,134 1,908
Links (Yahoo Explorer) 2,452 26,492 911
Pages Infringed/Scraped Medium to High High Low
Links from Spammers Medium High Low
Pages 160 1000 (70% blogs) 30
Link Quality High High to Medium Medium to Low
Author Authority High High Low
YouTube Tie-In None Medium High
HTML Uniformity Medium Low (blogs) High
Google Analytics 100% (now) 50% (blogs) 100%
Changes since Panda Many Many Few

The pages infringed/scraped count is based on Google searches using exact quotes from pages on the websites. Not surprisingly, the most popular pages of past years tend to be those that got ripped off the most. For both the FONERBOOKS and DAILEYINT sites, the most infringed upon pages are my troubleshooting flowcharts, though the automatic scrapers often take the text and leave the flowcharts behind! It’s not uncommon to find thousands of syndicated infringements of a single popular web page. There were very few infringements on the IFITJAMS website, mainly snippets or graphics pasted into automotive forums.

I’ve spent entire weeks this year filing DMCA complaints for infringements on DAILEYINT and FONERBOOKS, sending hundreds to Google Blogger alone. But it’s a disgusting experience, or as old New Englanders would put it, you can’t touch pitch and not become defiled. Prior to Panda, Google did an excellent job making sure that the original web pages appeared in search before the infringements. After Panda penalties are applied, that whole system fell apart.

Links from spammers is another category that isn’t supposed to make a difference, but webmasters are beginning to assume that Google has taken the approach that if there are too many links from bad neighborhoods in proportion to your total, something must be wrong. Thanks to autoblogging, scrapers, and other forms of spam generation software, FONERBOOKS has over thirty thousand unwanted links from lousy websites. A single offshore blogging site links to a minor page on the FONERBOOKS website over 13,000 times! Spammers have always included links to high quality websites in the belief that this will lead Google to include their spammy websites in a good neighborhood. It may be working the opposite direction. The table below shows links from single spammy domains to the left, and the pages they link to right.

FONERBOOKS Webmaster Tools report shows unwanted links.

The page count for IFITJAMS is currently 30 pages, of which a single page is new this year.

The DAILEYINT count is approximate, there used to be over 250 pages, but in a effort to please Goldilocks, I removed three sections of older pages this year. First I got rid of an experimental Blogger blog from 2005 in which I would report a leading news story of the day from 100, 200 or 300 years ago. I just checked Webmaster Tools, and it turns out that one of these blog posts had attracted 71 links from 44 different domains, primarily .EDUs and .ORGs. Now it’s a soft 404. Then I got rid of the novel I posted online in 1996, which was one of the first to be included in Yahoo’s web published fiction directory and was referenced as a citation example by the Chicago Manual of Style. I think it was 26 chapters, call it 30 web pages.

Next, I got rid of The Midnight Question and Archives, nine LONG web pages of computer questions sent from all over the world which I had answered in the 1997/1998 time frame. My apologies to people who like using old computers. Finally, I dumped all of the original Hand-Me-Down PC chapters and a number of related pages that just didn’t draw many visitors. I’m a bit ashamed of all this since there was nothing wrong with the quality of any of these pages, but I’m addicted to troubleshooting so I couldn’t resist trying something.

The FONERBOOKS page count has been bouncing around this year as I deleted over five hundred old blog posts to get the old Blogger code off my site, and then felt so bad about all the incoming links getting intercepted by my 404 page that I put them all back last week. I’m still in the Webmaster Tools process of manually reincludng them in the index. At this point, I’m thinking of restoring the entire site from a 2010 backup, but it seems a shame considering how I invested a couple weeks redesigning the navigation and eliminating pages that only drew a few visitors a day. I think the only pages on FONERBOOKS that I was really happy to get rid of were a series of financial articles and blog posts I wrote about day trading some years ago, when I forced myself to make a stock trade every day for a month. I think it was a down month and I lost around $2,000 trading.

The link quality in the table is just my assessment of the average quality of incoming links. All three sites have some super high quality links from top websites and media outlets (New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, etc), and all sites have some super low quality links from spammers who were trying to move into a better neighborhood. On the whole, I think DAILEYINT has the highest quality links on average because the bulk of the pages, Franklyn’s historical work, just don’t attract links from spammers. There are also a couple PageRank=6 pages left on the DAILEYINT site. While FONERBOOKS has far and away the most high quality links of the three sites, the average is dragged down by all the spammers and scrapers. IFITJAMS has a single high quality link (Make Magazine) and a couple links from schools, but primarily it gets mentions in forums. IFITJAMS also has almost eight times as many NOFOLLOWED links from eHow (230) as it does pages to accept links (30).

I touched on author authority earlier, by which I mean the professional qualifications and experience of the authors in the particular subjects. On DAILEYINT it’s tops for all the pages. On FONERBOOKS, the unending pressure to produce blog posts over the course of six years no doubt led me to rush a post here and there, though I rarely write from off the top of my head. Author experience is the main knock on IFITJAMS, for which I’d call my author authority low. While it’s based on personal experience, much of that personal experience has resulted in needing to fix it again. Of course, the site’s moto is, “If it jams, fix it, if it breaks, fix it again.”

Google loves YouTube so it wouldn’t shock me if having a popular YouTube channel associated with a website is seen as a sign of quality. It also fits in with Google’s broader theme of trying to compete with FaceBook by playing up social networking. The IFITJAMS YouTube channel gets a couple thousand views a day for the collection of unrehearsed two minute videos I made while working on the car. The FONERBOOKS YouTube channel gets less than 100 views a day, most of them driven by my website. DAILEYINT has no YouTube presence.

IFITJAMS YouTube video views per day

Google Search loves Google products so much now that I even see Google Answers pages from 2002 popping up ahead of my regularly updated publishing statistics pages, even where the Google Answers page refers to mine as a source. And Google Books outranks FONERBOOKS for a search on The Laptop Repair Workbook, though all Google Books has to offer is a computer generated bibliographical record that I doubt has ever been linked.

HTML uniformity is a measure of how similar all of the pages are to each other, ignoring the content. The pages on IFITJAM are very uniform and all live in the root directory. They were created in the same old Windows 3.1 HTML editor from 1995 (GNNPress) and there are only two basic page designs on the site.

The DAILEYINT pages are getting more uniform every time I change anything on the site, though there are still a dozen pages with long URLs from an old Blogger blog I started writing about electric car technology. I converted them into plain HTML this year and I could easily delete them, but they’ve drawn some incoming links that I hate to orphan. The DAILEYINT pages are all in subdirectories, one for each topic. The biggest knock on the HTML would be the lack of any META tags on Franklyn’s pages, and the fact he occasionally uses empty header tags to create vertical spacing. Maybe that makes him an evil person.

From an HTML uniformity standpoint, FONERBOOKS is a mess. There are over five hundred old Blogger posts I just put back on the site to get rid of the soft 404 errors, and there are all the WordPress Self Publishing blog posts I’ve written since Blogger (Google) shut down their FTP service in early 2010. According to Webmaster Tools, there are some title tag repeats in the WordPress pages that I don’t know how to avoid since they aren’t really different pages, just different paths. And maybe Panda thinks it’s a sign of low quality to have page names ending with both “.htm” and “.html” (thanks to Blogger). Maybe that makes me an evil person too.

The FONERBOOKS directory structure is a little haphazard, but there’s nothing I can do about it since I’m hosted on a Windows IIS machine without the ability to implement 301 redirects to move things around. This is particularly painful for my old publishing blog main page which has links from over 500 different domains (that’s more different domains than have linked the entire IFITJAMS site) which I can’t redirect it to the new Self Publishing blog. I’m open to suggestions;-) ***Update: I figured out the redirect using the web.config file this morning. I have no idea why my extensive searching last year didn’t turn up a solution, I was still using Google then. ***

Other than the uniformity of the HTML, I wanted to say something about the other non-text elements of the sites. IFITJAMS is the most uniform, with Google Analytics code on every page. DAILEYINT used to be 50/50 because I only had Analytics code on my pages while Franklyn uses the server stats. Sunday morning I stuck my Analytics code onto all of his pages and made a few little HTML tweaks as I went along. Franklyn, at 90 years old with macular degeneration, is still adding pages to the DAILEYINT website because history is important to him. I’m not going to ask Franklyn to learn to use a different WYSIWYG editor with the productive time he has left.

The FONERBOOKS pages include a variety of JavaScript, with Analytics on maybe half the pages (but 90% of the page views) and Google Adsense on a couple dozen pages and some pre-2009 blog posts. Making any changes with Analytics or Adsense means manually editing hundreds of old Blogger posts in Notepad so it’s something I try to avoid. In August I manually de-Bloggerfied the hundred or so old Self Publishing blog posts that I decided to keep, which took me at least twenty hours. Now I’ve written over them again just a couple months later. What a waste of time.

I’ve put the biggest post-Panda effort into DAILEYINT because I know how much Franklyn enjoys hearing from old veterans and their surviving family members, and he’s been able to solve a few historical mysteries based on people coming forward with oral histories 65 years or so after the fact. That effort mainly amounted to removing older pages of mine that didn’t draw much traffic and trying to make my own pages more uniform in HTML construction and navigation. The site is so straight forward that other than removing pages that drew less than ten visitors a day and filing DMCA complaints, I couldn’t think of anything else to try.

I’ve made a good number of changes to FONERBOOKS since Panda hit, but it’s been more a question of making changes I’d been afraid to try in previous years for fear of losing search engine presence. Amongst other things, I deleted a couple blogs I had tried and abandoned, I deleted most of my pages about website design for authors, and I cut way back on internal navigation links between my most popular pages. Traffic has done nothing but droop, so I may restore from a 2010 back-up and forget about it.

I made the fewest changes to IFITJAMS, in part because the site isn’t associated with any published books so it doesn’t have any impact on my publishing business unless I sell the site outright. The only thing I can remember doing was deleting the FixIt blog in April, which totaled ten posts made over the course of three months in 2008. I might have neatened up the HTML, things like table sizes or META tags. I don’t remember, though anybody can check by comparing the current pages against the Internet Archive records.

So I’m left with two questions. Why did the Panda eat DAILEYINT and FONERBOOKS and why did it regurgitate IFITJAMS and then gift it multiples of visitors?

My leading theory has always been Google’s misidentification of duplicate content, and this theory is shared by many other webmasters with high quality content. FONERBOOKS and DAILEYINT are not only heavily infringed upon and scraped, much of the book content was voluntarily included in Google Books (we requested it be removed this year). My computer books have been heavily pirated, so that PDF copies are all over the web, and my more popular publishing articles have been stolen and in many cases, thinly rewritten.

I made a point of including links back to my website in the PDF eBooks I began publishing without DRM in 2008, so that Google would know where the content came from, but that didn’t stopped them from ranking piracy sites above my own site on some book title searches post-Panda. And I even tried fighting fire with fire by releasing a free PDF sampler with the same title as a book for propagation on piracy networks. Google’s company line about duplicate content has always been that it’s not a problem because you can always file a DMCA complaint. If even a single Google employee has spent as little as a hundred hours of his life time filing DMCA complaints, I’d love to hear from that employee so I can say, “A hundred hours? That’s nothing.”

Another possibility is that Google has targeted certain subject areas with a high level of skepticism. Since the Panda penalty is applied to the whole website, that means that if computer hardware is categorized a high crime area, both FONERBOOKS and DAILEYINT would be subject to that filter. If the next filter is to check if the content is unique, given the fact that there are tens of thousands of web pages infringing on my computer writings, they could easily be saying, “A pox on all their houses.” There’s nothing I can do to prove to a computer algorithm that I’m the author of my work. Fifteen years of accumulated organic links from high quality websites used to prove that point for me, but they’ve been overruled by Panda.

If it wasn’t for all of the links to my computer pages on DAILEYINT (not to mention around 500 NOFOLLOWED links from eHow to a mere handful of pages), I might delete them all and see if Franklyn’s history pages recover. The problem with that scenario is it would likely make Google believe that the leading copyright infringer of the moment is the original source, and I’d have pushed the few hundred remaining visitors a day to a crook. Or I suppose I could leave my host of the last decade for a host with Unix servers that would allow me to 301 redirect the two dozen computer pages to another site and see if Franklyn’s pages recover, but it’s a lot of hassle for a highly unlikely outcome.

Another possibility is automated scoring of website quality based on the underlying HTML aesthetics of our pages. I don’t really believe this since I’ve seen too many high quality websites decimated by Panda which used solid content management systems that provided entirely uniform HTML. But perhaps Panda is doing something insane like looking at our simple book order pages and declaring, “These evil people link this one page from lots of other pages and there’s not much here other than a link to Amazon.” Well, Panda-Pooh, that’s where we send people who want to buy a book.

It’s also possible that Panda is just dying to let FONERBOOKS and DAILEYINT recover but that another Google filter monitoring suspicious SEO activity (deleting and replacing pages, changing internal navigation links) is getting in the way. If the only Panda recovery I was aware of was IFITJAMS, I’d guess that an SEO penalty was likely, but since I’ve read about forum sites recovering after making massive and ongoing changes, I’m not going to worry about it. In any case, I’ll hold off on restoring any pages to DAILEYINT, even though that means hundreds of good, organic links pointing to missing pages, and if it should recover while FONERBOOKS languishes, it could mean that a busy beaver penalty is in force.

The funny thing is that I find myself in the same position as a few other author/engineers I know who are too disgusted with what Panda actually means to care whether or not our sites recover. Yet we are too obsessed with troubleshooting to just let it go. The very fact that a Panda can come out of nowhere to eat all of your web traffic while the PhD’s at Google talk about quality and suggest we evil authors examine our souls, means that using a website for the primary publication media is no longer a business model. That doesn’t change even if FONERBOOKS and DAILEYINT follow IFITJAMS into Panda heaven next month and instead of the old 10,000 visitors a day the sites start to draw 25,000. If I want to take up gambling for a living, I can go back to day trading and skip writing about it.

So it’s back to watching the old clock and and waiting for the hammer to fall.

19 comments to Google-locks and the Three Faces of Panda

  • Ray Saunders

    Re redirecting the 301 condition –
    Might try changing pages to .ASP and implement code found at http://www.webconfs.com/how-to-redirect-a-webpage.php

    In the next 6-8 months, I will be republishing two of my mother’s books on Colorado history and an aunt’s memoir of ranch life circa early 1900′s. These will be small scale – they will never sell big numbers but will sell forever in parts of Colorado and I’m not trying to make a living from publishing or writing. I will probably POD them for the tourist trade and may print and hand-bind ‘special editions’ just for the fun of it.

    I will market these personally in Colorado and through my website. I may also decide to offer one of my previously-POD’d novellas as a free PDF, since it will never fly commercially and might generate some free advertising, even if it ends up being infringed.

    If these books never sell in significant quantity, I don’t expect Amazon to be much value for them. Do you see any advantage to using Amazon CreateSpace for the POD anyway or should I just go with Lightning Source or some such?

    Since 1999, I’ve had a website that gets Google hits for searches on my IT expertise and genealogy activity but very little related to writing, publishing or books. Any advice on changes I could make to leverage the site’s current exposure but have Google target me for books instead of IT/genealogy? Given your view that “using a website for the primary publication media is not longer a business model”, would it even be worthwhile?

    Thanks and keep up the good work. You’re the best site around for WritingTechies.

    RayS

  • Ray,

    I’ll take a look at the .ASP thing but I don’t think I have the ability (or the desire) to convert all of the pages on the site. Keep in mind this WordPress blog is the only thing that’s not straight HTML.

    I would start with Kindle and Amazon CreateSpace simply because they are free and leverage Amazon’s platform. What’s more, I would encourage your customers to buy from Amazon rather than direct from you, to build up the book’s Amazon presence.

    Well, the web with Google in charge is an iffy proposition. You can certainly start adding publishing material to your site which is already covering multiple subjects, that does take advantage of the site’s current exposure. In the old days I would say that’s a 100% sure thing, but who knows if Google will now take it amiss somehow?

    Morris

  • [...] has a whole post about his Panda experiences here, including the following [...]

  • Ray Saunders

    Thanks – appreciate the advice. Now I see why lots of authors point visitors to Amazon. Silly me! I thought it was just because they didn’t want to bother with the logistics of selling/shipping.

    Over the next few months, I will be rebuilding my website, since I’m being ‘retired’ from my current job, like it or not. The frontpage will become books and publishing, but I may keep some IT-related matter downstream in case a chance for free-lance consulting shows up. I’ll see if Google eventually directs IT queries directly downstream instead of to my frontpage. I have blog that is mostly my poetry or reviews of other poets and novelists, but I haven’t tried to cross-link the blog and the website and will only do so after the site is rebuilt.

    Like it or not, Google and Amazon are the chief targets for visitors and buyers.

    Thanks again.
    RS

  • Daniel

    I have been reading your entire article, or should I say a “case study” and the level of sadness is huge.
    I can’t find an explanation but what I know for sure is that Google tends to eliminate most of the small and medium website owners, regardless of their content. Someone suggested that it’s the web design of my website so I hired the best web designer and I have a new template ready.
    Someone said that it’s because of my content that has been copied, I will probably spend some time in order to fill many DMCA complaints.
    I have never had a problem with Google before but this Panda update opened my eyes and I am desperately looking for a better alternative.
    Anyway, congratulations for this article, well written but there is only one main problem, it’s unique content so watch out for the next Panda update as it seems they don’t like this type of content.
    In spam we trust, supporting the big players – Google

  • Daniel,

    A couple minutes ago I checked the Google Panda thread on their site, and somebody was claiming that scrapers never outrank original content. So I decided to Google a simple phrase from one of my pages for the first time in a few weeks, and while my page was #1, the #2 result was a “book” in Google Books which is full of pages stolen from my site. It’s also been published on Amazon Kindle, just like I was talking about in my last blog post. So I just shot a note off to Amazon copyrights, and now I’ll have to DMCA Google Books again.

    Funny how unintended consequences work.

    Morris

  • Daniel

    Morris, I’ve checked at my website…random phrases…I am still on the first place and after me tons of spam websites with content stolen from me…

    I can understand how this is affecting you…Amazon or Google books it will outrank you, doesn’t matter that you’re the original, they are stronger and my question is: are you going to fill DMCA complaints again and again ?

    When Google receives DMCA’s why they doesn’t take any actions against Amazon or Google Books ? A 60 % loss of their traffic should be a wonderful gift for Christmas.

    See how Google doesn’t manipulate search results ? I would love to hear a Google engineer opinion telling me that my website is being treated as the big players.

    If they would care about the WWW they would invent something that would allow us ( the webmasters ) to paste an article, before we would upload it on our website and based on that evidence they would know that we are the only one who wrote that content. PERIOD. Rules are for fouls and hard working people, Google is being interested in making profit and that’s it, unless you’re a big client of them, you don’t count for them.

    Is there anything else I should say ? It seems to me that I covered all aspects.

  • Hi, I read the article on Webpronews and came to read your entire article.

    Nicely done.

    I have to add something that some have failed to notice. Google has been using the data that they are receiving from Google Chrome in their updates.

    Google Chrome users have the ability to block websites from their searches and if several people block the same sites from their search results Google notices this and uses the information in their ranking of a site.

    It seems that it would take a lot of users to make a difference but who knows for sure? Google is not going to tell us any of this on their own.

    Another nice thing about this is that Google has lost some of its traffic after Chrome and after these updates have started.

    Bing has seen an increase in usage and I am sure that a few other alternatives to Google have seen a small jump in usage.

    If these panda updates backfire, and people can’t find the searches that they want, and if they know that the sites are out there, some will abandon Google and go to another search option.

    I realize that this is not heartening, or immediate consolation, for the massive losses you and others have witnessed and received, but at least it is a hope.

  • Greg,

    I’d heard that about Chrome, don’t know how much weight they give it, but I don’t have any reason to suspect it would hurt me. I’ve never made any attempt to trap people on the website, most of my pages can stand-alone, so the average searcher is either going to find what he’s looking for on the particular page or leave. I think Google understands that this is a good thing vs webmaster who are just trying to generate low bounce rates and a lot of clicks, but who knows. My IFITJAMS site has the highest bounce rate, lowest time on site and the highest exit percentage of my three sites, yet it’s the one that’s gotten a 3X boost over its pre-Panda traffic.

    Morris

  • I know it makes no sense does it. My site Raief did not lose any traffic but it lost several hundred backlinks.

    This was probably due to the other sites reconstructing their pages and links, trying to recoup and get back in Google’s graces.

    I think that there are only about 270,000 Google Chrome users. But some webmasters are claiming that their competitors are blocking their sites on purpose.

    It seems like this would not be plausible, or would not make a difference, but who knows anymore what is driving the Panda, or how Google is using the information, and what determines their actions.

    My other sites are so small that I did not notice any real changes either, but I am getting ready to launch 5 more sites and see how they are received.

    The 3 of sites are older sites that I have taken out of circulation and am now revamping them.

    I am a little nervous because I have already spent a lot of time and energy in preparing the content for them.

    For you it is a wait and see game. Right?

  • Greg,

    I did nothing on the site that recovered and then some, but since it did recover, I’ve been investing a lot of time making my two larger sites more like it. For example, I spent the last two days making the table based pages on FONERBOOKS a uniform width and centered, and cutting down on bottom of the page navigation at the same time. But FONERBOOKS has the blogs, so it will never be apples-to-apples. Eventually, I’ll make DAILEYINT look exactly like IFITJAMS from an HTML standpoint, just a lot of manual editing with low odds of success:-)

    Morris

  • nobody

    Your blog is awesome!

    Since Panda ate my website my life is kinda over and I can’t do anything else, but try to understand, improve and get rid of this Panda and this is why I ask for your advice.

    1. first I though scrapers duplicating my content is the problem. I was hit on 28 September. I deleted/rewritten those articles, but no recovery yet.
    2. I analyzed all the websites in my niche that were hit and it doesn’t matter how many links they have, they were hit if they don’t give the visitors what they need.
    3. Changed my layout, even considered moving the website to antoher person name, changing the IP address and so on.
    4. What if only those couple of pages blocked (maybe of my competitors), could destroy my website? What do I have to do?
    5. One website that was hit I deleted all content, but no recovery.

    More ideas?

    Thanks a lot!

  • Nobody,

    I haven’t kept up with the Panda calendar, September 28th would be a very late stage Panda, and it seems the later the stage, the better the chances of recovery.

    1) I would not suggest rewriting original articles that have been scraped. That may very well make your articles appear like they are thinly rewritten copies of somebody else’s originals.

    2) It’s clear that the penalty overrides authority from links, though it’s also important to rememebr that there are genuine organic links and fake SEO links from spammy sites, blog comments, etc. Websites should be hit by Panda if they don’t give visitors what they need, that’s the whole point.

    3) Changing layout might help, I’ve tweaked the layout of my two Pandalized sites to match the layout of the one that benefitted, but they were pretty close to start with, with the excpetion of the blogs on this site. I doubt hiding who you are would change things.

    4) I don’t understand what you’re asking in 4.

    5) You deleted all of the content? Why would a website get any visitors with no content?

    It’s not at all clear to me whether your website(s) are genuine or a get-rich-quick scheme. The thing that makes Panda evil is the errors, not the goal of returning better results. I’m not the only publisher with high quality, 100% original pages who’s been hit by Panda, but the majority of the demotions are clearly bad websites. The problem is that Google is indifferent to the collateral damage, and is producing lower quality search results at the same time.

    Morris

  • nobody

    Thanks for your fast answer @Morris Rosenthal!

    1. I rewrote the original articles from scratch. I haven’t rewrote the original articles, but wrote a completely different one (for some keywords, the article with a new text – rewritten one, recovered).

    3. I’ve read somewhere that changing the design might help, or maybe further engage people with your content. Don’t know, but I’ve been using the same template since it hit me, so I though changing it couldn’t hurt. In my niche, for about one hundred websites hit, none of them changed the design, so I though changing it could help or not, but couldn’t make it worse.

    4. I was thinking that Panda might affect certain pages based on what people block. After I visit an website in Google (even if I have a google account) I can either block the entire website (altough I visited just one page or more for that search query) or not.

    My thinking is that pages with the most blocks could fall in rankings and then penalize the entire website if you have a certain/big amount of pages blocked by users/competitors/both.

    How do we know which pages my visitors blocked? That’s probably tricky, but I was thinking about pages that stopped getting traffic from a certain point and felt in ranking (100+ position). Most of the times those aren’t updated pages and users can’t find what they are looking for, or the navigation is bad.

    Makes sense?

    5. I had another Panda website that I deleted the entire content, but haven’t recovered. It sounds true, because no content can’t beat Panda.

    I had another Panda website with 4 articles that got Panda just because the articles were a test/crap.

    The website I am talking about is not a quick rich scheme, it’s a hobby website of mine I’ve been working for a lot of time (probably working around 8 hours a day). I’ve seen worse websites not hit or double the traffic, but mine was hit. I’ve made a few errors, maybe the website was not perfect, but how I recover now is my question.

    Do you have any other recommandation you read/experienced/tested that got you or others out of Panda?

    Thanks and wonderful blog!

  • Nobody,

    1) Writing for keywords sounds fishy.

    2) missing

    3) The more people are engaged with your site, the better the odds they will tell other people ahout it.

    4) Each Panda iteration is different, perhaps the late Septemeber iterationhad to do with people blocking spam sites, I don’t know. If you think people may be blocking your site, you must be doing something wrong.

    5) I still don’t understand your deleting all of the content on a website, how could Google possibly send you any visitors after that?

    My hobby website recovered from Panda after around five months with no changes on my part, and then Google tripled the traffic. All I’ve done since has focused on trying to make my publishing websites as much lie the hobby website as I can, short of dropping book sales, which is my business.

    Morris

  • amir

    Hi Moris
    I am Amir from Tel-Aviv having several websites like you and.. in the same boat,
    Your article is interesting yet depressing.

    It could be that unintentionally you’ve mentioned what is Panda all about.
    Having good presence in several Google properties might be the key to Panda immunity/recovery.
    The reason that the third site recovered could be the great presence it has in youtube.
    My “theory” is that Google doesn’t reward you for great content but for having “signals” in the right places. Those signals are key links and parts of these links are youtube links.

    I thought we all have already realized that Google king is naked..
    Not even one webmaster believes that after Panda the search results were improved.
    If, theoretically, you decide to improve your site and invite the winner of the Pulitzer Prize for journalism to write for you, do you think Google rewards you for that.
    Does anyone think Google recognize quality? Really? How?
    Let’s say Google is honestly wanted to reward “quality”, how does it do that?:
    Social signals are biased (Well-known websites get extra signals even if the content is shallow.), links can be acquired and other site’s metrics aren’t accurate (it mostly based on the quality of the traffic).

    I am ready to share/consult with you Morris, we can talk if you will.

  • Amir,

    The mention of video wasn’t unintentional, it’s potentially one of many factors driving Panda. If there were one overwhelming factor, it would have been obvious and identified long ago.

    That Google doesn’t award for great content is hardly a theory, it awards “status” that they measure in different ways. Panda is largely about their coming to distrust the value of incoming links (roughly PageRank) and putting their trust in other factors, which they feel are less gameable. Since PageRank was truly their crown jewel, it’s not surprising that dismissing it has trashed the results in many instances. Video and other community driven signals apparently fit their current scheme, but unfrotunately, these are not signs of quality.

    Google took over Internet search over the past decade by relying on the honesty and intelligence of people and institutions granting links. It actually worked very well, but there was a slow trend to worse results driven by black hat SEOs gaming the system and the rise of both content farms and “community” sites with their hundreds of millions of question/answer pages targetted for key phrases. Google could have solved that problem by selectively banning the content farms that drew enough traffic to appear on the radar screen, but they wanted an algorithm to do the work, not humans, and produced Panda. Panda is having a growing impact on content farms as they tweak it, but the collateral damage was huge, and it promotes different types of garbage sites, those that never drew any organic links because their content is garbage.

    I don’t know whether or not Google will turn their ship around or whether they will stick to their guns because they are an insular ivory tower company,as blindly vain about their own capabilities as academia. As I commented last week on Matt Cutts blog, I’m not rushing to create new works on the Internet until I’m convinced they’ve solved their problems with copyright infringement, a subject on which they are flat-out liars. By the same token, I’m not going to spend my time trying to raise the status of my websites by running around like a chicken with its head cut off. I spent the last couple months dealing with copyright infringements, though as it’s clear that Google keeps infringing pages in their index after they remove them from search results, I’m not sure it will help one bit.

    In any case, I’m happy to talk, though I find writing more effective. My contact e-mail is here:

    http://www.fonerbooks.com/contact.htm

    If my serious sites aren’t on the road to recovery by New Years and IFITJAMS is still going strong, I’ll probably try 301 redirecting some of my previously stongest pages to IFITJAMS and see if they take-off again there.

    Morris

  • I wasn’t hit by Panda. Maybe the key is to pick a niche too small for scrapers to come, but big enough to make a living.

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